3 Best Bitcoin Mining Hardware ASICs For 2019-2020 ...
Open Source FPGA Bitcoin Miner - Bitcoin Wiki
5 Best Bitcoin Mining Hardware ASIC Machines (2020 Rigs)
Discussion about Primecoin and its infra. Primecoin is a very innovative cryptocurrency, being the 1st non Hash-Cash PoW crypto, naturally scarce (not artificially), with very fast confirmations (1min), elastic readjusting reward & a useful mining (byproducts are primes). Primecoin is sustainable (miners are guaranteed to have revenues), and decentralized (ASIC/FPGA are not particularly advantaged). Sidechain for decentralized data applications (e.g. Storj) currently in development.
Open-Source FPGA Bitcoin Miner and ASIC conversion...
Hey Everyone, So there has been a lot of talk about FPGA and ASIC miners recently, and I've been doing some of my own research. FPGA's are fully programmable, and mainly used in R&D where ASIC's cannot be programmed - but are cheap and have the potential to out preform FPGA's. Here's where it gets interesting. There are multiple companies that do FPGA-to-ASIC migrations for this exact purpose. The "R&D lab" has a stable setup with their FPGA and want to get it into production. It would make little sense to use expensive and slower FPGA's, especially when the code (HDL) has been finalized. This is where these migration companies come in... Now this is what I'm thinking, we already have the Open-Source FPGA Bitcoin Miner HDL - so what's stopping us with going into full production mode and getting our OWN ASIC's??? I've come across multiple companies that do this (it seems pretty common practice) such as this one that even offers pin compatibility which would make our lives even easier: http://www.gigoptix.com/component/k2/item/325-pin-pin.html Any input is welcomed! I haven't messed around with FGPA's in 13 years so I'm probably off on a few things. Feel free to fill in the holes! -UltraSPARC
Jeg er journalist på Radio24syv og søger en eller flere personer, som miner Bitcoins og kunne have tid og lyst til at tage deres setup med i studiet og forklare, hvordan det virker. Hvis nogen kunne vil høre mere om indslaget eller kunne have tid og lyst til at medvirke, må I meget gerne vende tilbage på [email protected]. Vh
Building an ASIC miner with FPGA chips or manufactured IC's available on the market
Hi again. I recently made a post on using Arduino to replace bitcoin miners and i realized how crazily stupid that decision would be seeming as a typical Arduino has a hash rate of around 50 Now I needed a new way to build an ASIC miner seeing as Arduinos are out of the question. The two possible methods I came up with/discovered was by using multiple FPGA chips to do the exact calculations needed. The other is by using pre-manufactured IC's from older GPU's, buying them in bulk and building many GPU's that are built around those IC's I have three questions:
What do you guys think about using FPGA's or manufactured IC's to make the bitcoin miner?
Are there any articles you know of where people have attempted a similar project
If there is a cryptocurrency that has acquired popularity close to Bitcoin, then it is Ethereum. It is among the leading crypto-currencies when it comes to market capitalization. Ethereum is not just a cryptocurrency, but it is also a blockchain system that is useful in creating decentralised applications. Since Ethereum Blockchain is used by most companies now, it is gaining popularity among Ethereum miners and developers. Ethereum mining is a great way to make more cash. Benefiting from cryptocurrencies in p is a perfect option. Since many applications for Blockchain depend on Ethereum. Ethereum mining is going to be lucrative, as its price is expected to grow. The Ethereum minimum can be simplified with the use of the best Ethereum software. There are some apps like that on the market, and we've got the seven best for you here. 7 Ethereum 's Best Apps: ETHminer- This is an Ethereum mining application which is supported on Linux , Windows, and Mac. It is also possible to use the Ethash algorithm, luke Ellaisma, Musicoin Ethereum Classic, Metaverse, It is a command-line program that allows you to construct shortcut commands using a Windows cmd / batch file or Linux Bash script. The next software on our list is CGMiner-A, which was published in 2011. It is one of the common choices and has compatibility with GPU, FPGA, and ASIC. It is open-source software and can cause advanced detection of blocks. It is written in C; Ethereum developers are able to save a hash rate without delay using this Ethereum mining programme. On Linux , Windows, and Mac, this program is open. BitMinter- The graphical interface is transparent and it links easily to the Bitminter mining pool. This software was launched in 2011 and has more than 450,000 user accounts registered. The Java Network Launch Protocol (JNLP) is the foundation of its operations. Linux, Windows and Mac are also compatible with this programme. Claymore- This is one of the most powerful mining applications for Ethereum, and without delaying the mining pace, you can scale up the hash rate. You can also mine other cryptocurrencies like Lbry, Pascal, Siacoin, and Decred using this Ethereum mining programme. This software is Linux and Windows compatible and not Mac compatible. WinETH- If you are looking for an Ethereum mining app that is fast and simple to use, then this is the one for you. It is comparable to WinETH, but it has a simpler Interface and a smarter algorithm that makes it easy to use for Ethereum miners. Minergate-It was the first mining app for Ethereum to deliver merged mining. You can use this app to concurrently mine two separate coins without impacting the main coin's hash rate. In addition, this coin will also tell you about the market's most valuable coins. This programme can be used by Ethereum miners to mine other coins, including Zcash, Liteoin, Monero. BFGMiner- This programme is written in C and operates on various Linux, Windows and Mac operating systems. You will mine crypto coins and have both SHA256D and Scrypt on its algorithm. It also offers you total support for tracking. Conclusion- These are some of the popular mining applications for Ethereum that you can use. If you would like to know more about the creation of Ethereum, or Ethereum mining, If you wish to know more about Ethereum development, or Ethereum mining, or you want to enroll for Ethereum certification, connect with Blockchain Council today.
Hello Reddit! I'd like to welcome you all to try Foreman, our miner management platform. Site: https://foreman.mn/ Demo: here What we offer:
Hash rate monitoring
Remotely change ASIC miner pools
Remotely reboot ASICs
Earnings reporting without needing to provide your wallet addresses
Centralized pool metrics
Alerting when things go wrong
ASIC and GPU support
NiceHash, MiningRigRentals (and AutoMiner), and ProHashing integration
HiveOS, nvOC, Linux, and Windows support
What we support: (user request driven - you ask, we add support) ASICs and FPGAs:
ccminer (and forks)
sgminer (and forks)
suprminer (and forks)
If you're still with us, check us out. Fully free for 30 days! If you have any questions, don't hesitate to hop on our Discord. BitcoinTalk: here Medium: here Twitter: here Open-source: here Happy Mining, The Foreman Team
THE END OF ALL ASIC MINERS? - Monero's New Superweapon: "Time Locked Proof of Non-ASIC work challenge reward" algorithms.
I propose the following algorithm to end this War of attrition with ASIC / FPGA manufacturers , hopefully once and for all and save us Precious PoW Tweaks during the upcoming forks.
"A time-locked, Proof of 'Non-ASIC work' Challenge reward algorithm"
Here's an image to help you visualise how the algorithm works (details below): https://imgur.com/a/9S8dA Here's why we need it: ASIC manufacturers mine in Secret to attack our decentralized network. They'll win the war since they'll 'get their investment back' before we brick their ASICs, allowing them to launch never-ending attacks against our decentralization, for eternity. Quick Overview This algorithm uses the concept of "time-locked reward challenges". The algorithm ‘time-locks’ the reward, then issues a ‘non-ASIC’ work challenge during each regular PoW Fork, which distributes mined rewards only to CPU and GPU miners who can pass the challenge and prove they are not ASICS, by maintaining their hashrate during the ASIC downtime. These Hash-rate challenges after PoW Forks successfully ‘detect’, and ‘Severely Penalize’ anyone Mining with an ASIC/FPGA, even those in Secret. Proof of Concept: An Actual Demonstration I'll demonstrate this algorithm in action: Please see this image to help you Visualise how the algorithm works: https://imgur.com/a/9S8dA There is a critical flaw and uniquely identifying feature that exists in absolutely 'ALL ASIC and FPGA miners', even those mining in Secret. As most of you may know, with the upcoming V7 PoW hardfork,
An ASIC miner’s hash rate component drops to Absolute zero for a set period of time afterwards, because their ASIC function can no longer be used with a PoW tweak.
Normal GPU and CPU miners are also very easy to identify; as they have no problem maintaining a relatively similar maximum hash rate after the fork.
Instead of just destroying an ASIC with a fork, we can further exploit this to attack the ASIC Manufacturer or Miner by taking back all their mined rewards and giving them to the community The Special timeframe is PoW Fork + 'N' Days. ('N' being however many days remaining where it would be "impossible" to build and startup a new ASIC/FPGA after the fork.) To exploit this, the algorithm introduces a period of time called the "Mining Rewards Collection Timeframe" (MRCT), the time period in between regular PoW Hardforks. the grey shaded area in this image This "Mining Rewards Collection Timeframe" is a time whereby all mining profit rewards are 'time-locked' or held hostage in escrow, on either the mining pool, or on the Actual Blockchain code itself, or Both, depending on where this algorithm is eventually deployed. The algorithm stores the wallet address a mining reward belongs to, and the maximum hash rate (or maximum value adjusted share rate per day) observed during the "Mining rewards collection timeframe" for that particular wallet address. This "Mining Rewards Collection Timeframe" can be of any duration as required by the developers; 1,2,3,4,5,6 Months or longer . The longer This Timeframe, the more dangerous it is to ASIC miners. Meaning we don't have to rush with forks. Since it's time-locked, mined coins/rewards cannot be cashed out until the coming challenge; However, mining pools can still choose to payout smaller miners before that time if they have a 'good stable Non-Asic Hash challenge passing history', or a deposit on file, or at their own risk, so most good miners don't have to wait to cashout rewards!. Big miners on the other hand, won't care! Why? Because the delay doesn't cost them anything. (it's a TINY TINY inconvenience compared to the damage ASICs would do to GPU mining profits. I hope this makes sense) Now for the Critical ANTI-ASIC Work Challenge. Time passes and the mining rewards collection timeframe ends with a Hardfork that changes the PoW algorithm slightly, All ASICS and FPGAs are INSTANTLY destroyed. At the same time, the mining rewards from that collection timeframe are now ready to be paid out. Since only the CPU / GPU miners are able to hash normally, The Algorithm now issues a Hash Rate challenge to determine how much of the coins mined were actually mined by ASIC or FPGA miners. The challenge is nothing special. Miners just have to leave their miners running normally at maximum speed for the period of the challenge, same as they do everyday! During this challenge, their "Average Maximum Hash rate during the challenge" is compared to the "Maximum Hash Rate speed" recorded on the blockchain during the Mining Rewards Collection Timeframe. See the green dotted line in the image Thus at this point, since ASICs are DEAD, they cannot Hash at the same rate during this challenge period, so any significant difference in hashrate would thus clearly indicate the use of an ASIC or FPGA miner. Now, we have all the information we need to STRIP ASIC Miners of ALL their gains, and Reward GPU miners instead. As shown in the earlier image
Example 1: A miner using PURELY 100% CPU and GPUs to mine, will easily pass the challenge as though it never happened. They can easily maintain 90% or more of their maximum hash rate recorded, well within the agreed margin of error. So they get the Full 100% Mining Reward, Plus a fair share of any of the coins forefitted by the ASIC Miners as a Bonus., (ie, 101% , or more.. possibly)
Example 2: A miner hashing with 100% ASICs or FPGAs, will be dead during this challenge and can match “0.00%” (ie, Nothing) of their maximum hash rate observed. As such, they proportionally also get “0.00%” of the rewards they mined and forefit all their rewards to other miners.
Example 3: A miner hashing with 60% ASICs and 40% CPU/GPUs will only be able to maintain 40% of their Maximum hash rate during the challenge period. As such, they proportionally only get 40% of all the Mining rewards they earned and forefit and Lose the 60% of all coins mined by the ASIC miners.
What if a 1 GPU breaks in a 12 GPU mining farm during the challenge? (Very rare) or for some reason, you can't mine during that period? then the miner can simply rent the GPUs from nicehash for the Challenge. An ASIC miner however, cannot use this strategy (because ASICS are not GPUs, explained further below). Also we can implement a 2nd chance option; the confiscated reward may be frozen for the next Cycle; and the miner may get a 2nd chance to prove the hashrate again, with a % reward penalty. The Beautiful thing is that If ASIC miners fail the challenge, Everyone gets a Bonus share of the Reward Forefitted by the ASIC miners, So Everyone wants the ASIC miners to fail so they get Free extra money. and thus have a financial reason to support this algorithm. *There is no escaping it... or is there? Is it ASIC PROOF? Can you Cheat this algorithm? I've also tried to see if you can work around this algorithm:
Example 1: What if they switched in GPUS to mine for an ASIC during the challenge? Well, that wouldn't work. When the challenge comes, they can either save the rewards mined by the GPUs, or save the rewards mined by the ASICs, One will always be lost and result is the same anyway because you'd only get paid for the Hash rate of the GPU. The ASIC portion of the hash rate will ALWAYS be lost.
Example 2: What if they use the GPUs to mine a different coin and have them only hash for the ASIC during the challenge period?
Consider the Antminer X3. at 200KH/s, to support just "ONE ASIC", they would need over 200 RX 580 Cards or 100 VEGA cards to pass the challenge... costing well over $60,000 (SIXTY THOUSAND DOLLARS) and if they depreciate at ~ 10~15% a year, they'd lose $6000~$9000 a year. it's not enough to cover your losses,
Also, What other coin could you mine? If ASICS are so powerful, there won't be another coin except those running this algorithm. Then, the dev can choose to issue the challenge at the same point as the other coin using the same algorithm, so they lose all rewards from one coin as 1 rig cannot sustain two challenge algorithms at the same time.
Example 3: What if they just leave some GPUS on standby to avoid the power costs? Then ASIC's would still be unable to be mass produced anyway. Because for every ASIC Mass produced, you'd need to Mass Produce 200 times the GPUS to support them in their place, and own of all them. practically impossible.
Example 4: What if they rented hashing power from Nicehash to fill in during the Challenge period?
Yes, but so can we! The beautiful thing about this algorithm, is if we rent the limited hashing power on Nicehash first before them at break even or loss, it doesn't matter, Because, the ASIC miner cannot rent and hash rate and will fail the challenge, and Forefit the ENORMOUS amount of Rewards to the community. Imagine, Mining at such a high rate for months on end , the rewards confiscated and paid to GPU miners will easily offset any of the tiny losses renting hashrate from Nicehash, so ultimately, The ASIC miners lose Everything, and the community (you and me) gets all their money.
Also if ASICs Dominate the crypto market, there won't be any GPU to rent, all remaining coins would be mining this algorithm, meaning they would have to save their own hashrate for themselves, not rent it to ASIC miners. otherwise they lose their reward. Brand new users may rent their GPU's but its no where near enough to cover the ASIC hash shortfall in the challenge.
Example 5: What if they waited till we exhausted our supply of PoW fork tweaks? That's the beauty of this algorithm!. We don't actually have to tweak the PoW algorithm on a constant basis! We can intentionally leave it the same. So Everyone passes the Challenge, Then when we do detect an asic "trying to Mine their Money Back in secret (as they do now)", We tweak the PoW at the Next Hardfork. Destroying and bankrupting their very first attempt, and we get all their money and rewards, So there's no need to waste a PoW tweak in a pre-emptive strike, because the rewards are Time-Locked to the future. We can lie in wait with a single PoW like a Trap, and eat them alive (literally we get all their rewards after the challenge!). We can maintain this lethal threat to ASIC manufacturers without having to change the PoW at all!
And remember, all this effort is just for ONLY, ONE ASIC. meaning you Can't mass produce it. So ultimately it wouldn't even make sense to even develop an ASIC, as you'd be far more profitable just mining only with the 200+ GPU's required to cheat the algorithm. *So in summary, *
No ASIC/FPGA miner can escape the challenge. Not even those running in secret.
All ASIC miners are guaranteed to suffer a huge (possibly fatal) financial loss, with no prospect of any return on investment. Time locked rewards ensure No secret pre-mining with ASICs is possible. ASICs are destroyed with each challenge, all R&D and manufacturing costs and the electricity bill used to power them is wasted for basically "ZERO returns",
…..and lets not forget that all their rewards gets given away to other honest miners like you and Me!. ( LOL!) or potentially the developers of the fork :)
As long as the algorithm is active and used by multiple coins, no ASICs will ever exist to mine in secret,
We save precious PoW tweak changes, since there's no need for a pre-emptive PoW strike to prevent 'ASIC hit and run' pre-mine scenarios.
ASIC manufacturers see that the war is un-winnable and go invest in other things,
So, in theory, The War Ends. (at least for a very good part of the future) As they say: " Don't build a wall and hide in fear.... Build a wall and launch missiles from behind it against the enemy so they will never dare attack us again." I would like to point out that time locked reward challenges are already in use by the Olympic games to Strip drug cheats in the past by storing samples and testing them in the future, and it's also in the PPLNS minig pool algorithms to deter pool hopping cheats, and also in the Bitcoin's Lightning network in the form of decrementing time-locks" that 'enforce the transfer of funds' under certain conditions. Is it beautiful? Will it work? Can it be done? Let's discuss this
Written by the CoinEx Institution, this series of jocular and easy to understand articles will show you everything you need to know about major cryptocurrencies, making you fully prepared before jumping into crypto! https://preview.redd.it/ryvcznqspe451.jpg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5fa91e26288d7b0a624113ed21172cc9fd5624a3 Monero, or XMR for short, is an open-source cryptocurrency that is safe, reliable, private, and untraceable. It can run on Windows, Mac, Linux, and FreeBSD, and is known as one of the most private cryptocurrencies. In 2018, Monero already ranked 10th in terms of trading volume, with its market value beyond 1 billion US dollars, an evidence for its great fame in this field. By a special method in cryptography, Monero ensures that all transactions remain 100% irrelevant and untraceable. Perhaps after reading this article, you will understand why it is so special and popular in the increasingly transparent and traceable cryptocurrency circle (After all privacy comes first!). In fact, many large cryptocurrencies in the world are not anonymous. All transactions on Bitcoin and Ethereum are made public and traceable, which means that anyone can eavesdrop on transactions flowing into and out of the wallet. That has given rise to a new type of cryptocurrency called “privacy currency”! These “privacy currencies” hide encrypted transactions by adopting specific types of passwords. One typical example is Monero, one of the largest privacy cryptocurrencies in the world. Monero was created on April 18, 2014 under the name BitMonero, literally the combination of Bit (Bitcoin) and Monero (the “coin” in Esperanto). In five days, the community decided to change its name to Monero. Interestingly, Monero’s creators valued personal privacy and tried to behave in a low-key manner with pseudonyms instead of the real names. It is said that the Monero major contributor’s nickname is “thankful for today”, yet this guy has gradually disappeared from public view as Monero developed day by day. Unlike many cryptocurrencies derived from BTC, Monero is based on the CryptoNote protocol. It is also the first branch based on the Bytecoin of CryptoNote currency. Here is some information about Bytecoin: BCN, for short, is a decentralized cryptocurrency with a high degree of privacy; it has open-source codes that allow everyone to contribute to the development of the Bytecoin network; and the Bytecoin network provides global users with instant private transactions that are not traceable and at no additional cost. Yet, as a branch of BCN, Monero outshines its parent in reputation by being different in two ways. First, Monero’s target block time was reduced from 120 seconds to 60 seconds; second, the issuance speed was cut by 50% (which reverted to 120-second residence later, with the issuance time maintained and the reward for each new block doubled). By the way, during the fork, the Monero developers also found a lot of low-quality codes and then refactored them. (That is exactly what geeks will do) Monero’s modular code structure was also highly appreciated by Wladimir J. van der Laan, one of the core maintainers of Bitcoin. Monero values privacy, decentralization and scalability, and there are significant algorithm differences in blockchain fuzzification, which sets it apart from its peers. How private is it? Here are more details. 1. Safe and reliable For a decentralized cryptocurrency, decentralization means that its network is operated by users; transactions are confirmed by decentralized consensus and then recorded on the blockchain irrevocably. Monero needs no third party to guarantee the safety of funds; 2. Privacy protection Monero confuses all transaction sources, amounts, and recipients through ring signatures, ring confidential transactions, and invisible addresses. Apart from all the advantages of a decentralized cryptocurrency, it is by no means inferior in safeguarding privacy; 3. Unable to track The sender, the receiver and the transaction amount of all Monero transactions must be anonymous by default. The information on the Monero Blockchain cannot be matched with physical individuals or specific users, so there is no trace to track; 4. Scalable Everyone knows that Bitcoin’sability to process transactions has always been limited by the scalability issue; as we have mentioned before in the introduction of Bitcoin, the block size of 1MB makes things difficult. But Monero’s developers have created a system that allows the network to process more transactions when needed; what’s more, Monero does not have any “pre-set” restrictions on block size. Of course, this also means that some malicious miners may block the system with large blocks. To prevent this from happening, Monero has worked out countermeasures: the block reward penalty of the system. On October 18, 2018, Monero’s latest hard fork changed the consensus mechanism algorithm to CrypotoNight V8. In this hard fork, it introduced the BulletProff bulletproof protocol, which can also effectively reduce the transaction fee of miners without disclosing transactions It is said that Monero will issue about 18.4 million XMR in around 8 years. Moreover, it eclipses its counterparts in distribution — with no pre-mining or pre-sale, all block rewards will be left to miners by means of the POW mechanism. Here is the reward scheme of Monero in two stages:
Acceleration: mine 18132000 XMR before May 2022;
Deceleration: Deceleration starts right after 18132000 XMR are mined, and there will be a reward of 0.6XMR for each block mined afterwards. In this way, the overall supply will be kept on a small scale and decelerated.
Monero is also excellent in its development concept that is designed to be anti-ASIC from the very beginning. Here is a brief introduction to ASIC (Special Application Integrated Circuit). Due to the specificity of ASICs, specially designed ASICs can usually have much higher hashrate than general CPUs, GPUs, and even FPGAs — that makes hashrate excessively centralized and makes it vulnerable to the monopoly of single centralized institutions. Yet the cryptonight algorithm used by Monero allows most CPUs and even FPGAs to get involved and get mining rewards, instead of making GPU the only one that can efficiently mine. In other words, Monero’s core development team will modify the consensus mechanism algorithm and have a hard fork after some time to ensure its strength against ASIC and the monopoly of hashrate. However, although Monero has been designed against ASICs to avoid centralization, nearly 43% of its hashrate is still owned by 3 mining pools; in addition, it is not a BTC-based currency, making it even harder to introduce some elements. Of course, Monero is not that newbie-friendly, and thus has not been widely accepted. Yet each cryptocurrency has its own features. As long as Monero keeps improving its privacy, it will definitely attract increasing followers. If you are interested in Monero, welcome to CoinEx for exchange or trade.
As a global and professional cryptocurrency exchange service provider, CoinEx was founded in December 2017 with Bitmain-led investment and has obtained a legal license in Estonia. It is a subsidiary brand of the ViaBTC Group, which owns the fifth largest BTC mining pool, which is also the largest of BCH mining, in the world. CoinEx supports perpetual contract, spot, margin trading and other derivatives trading, and its service reaches global users in nearly 100 countries/regions with various languages available, such as Chinese, English, Korean and Russian. Website:https://www.coinex.com/ Twitter:https://twitter.com/coinexcom Telegram:https://t.me/CoinExOfficialENG Click hereto register on CoinEx!
I earned about 4000% more btc with my android tablet than with a $250 ASIC mini rig setup using GekkoScience Newpac USB miners!
Requirements: 1.) Android Device with access to Google Play Store. *I haven't tried yet but you may be able to use tis on Android TV devces as well by sideloading. If anyone has success before I try, let me know! -Note, I did this with a Samsung Galaxy Tab S6 so its a newer more powerful device. If your android is older, your profts will most likely be less than what I earned but to give a projected range I also tested on my Raspberry Pi 4 running a custom LineageOS rom that doesn't allow the OS to make full use of the Pi's specs and I still got 500 h/s on that with Cloud boost, so about 60% of what my Tab 6 with MUCH Higher Specs does. **Hey guys. Before I get started i just wanted to be clear about one thing. Yes I have seen those scammy posts sharing "miracle" boosts and fixes. I have a hard time believing stuff online anymore. But this is honestly real. Ill attach photos and explain the whole story and process below. Thanks for taking the time to read and feel free to share any thoughts, concerns, tips, etc* So last week I finally got started with my first mini rig type mining build. I started getting into crypto about a year ago and it has taken me a long time to even grasp half of the projects out there but its been fun thus far! Anyways my rig was 2 GekkoScience Newpac USB miners, a Moonlander USB miner to pair with an FPGA i already had mining, a 10 port 60W 3.0 USB hub and 2 usb fans. The Newpacs actually are hashing at a combined 280 g/s which is actually better than their reported max hash rate when overclocked. Pleasant surpise and they are simple!! I just wanted to get a moonlander because my fpga already mines on Odocrypt for DGB and I just wanted to experience Scrypt mining and help build the DGB project. The Newpacs are mining BTC though. After I got everything up and running i checked my payout daily average after 1 week. I averaged .01 a day TOTAL between all three miners with them all perforing ABOVE SPEC!!! I had done research so i knew I wouldnt earn much. More than anything i just wanted to learn. But still. I was kinda surprised in a negative way. Yesterday I actually earned less than .01 Frustrated I went back to scouring the web for new ideas. About a year ago, when II was starting, I saw an app on my iphone called CryptoBrowser that claimed to mine btc on your phone without actually using phone resources using a method of cloud mining. I tried it for a week and quit because I earned like .03 after a ton of use and seemed scammy. Plus my iphone actually would get very hot when doing this so I quit using it as it seemed like a possible scam with all the cryptonight browser mining hacks and malware out there. Anyways I was on my Galaxy Tab S6 and saw that CryptoBrowser released a "PRO" edition for 3.99 on Google Play. I bought it for Sh*ts and giggles and booted it up. It came with what they called "Cloud Boost" Essentially this is a button you press and it multiplys the estimated hashrate that it gives you device by the number shown on the boost button. (With the purchase of PRO you get one free x10 boost. You can purchase additional boosts to use with other android devices but those are actually pretty pricy. Another x10 boost was like $25 if i remember correctly). I played with it for about an hour to see if it actually worked like it said it would this time. To my surprise, as i was browsing, my device didnt increase in temperature AT ALL!!!!! I checked my tast manager to confirm and it was indeed true, my memory and usage barely went up. it was giving me an estimated range of 80-105 on the hashrate. Once i pushed the x10 boost button, that went to 800-1150 h/s. I switched my screen to not go to sleep, plugged it to the charge and let it run on the browser page, hashing. When you push the boost button, it runs for 3 hours at the boosted speeds. After that it goes back to normal but if you press the button again, it boosts everything again. There is no limit to how many times you use it. After checking what I earned after 24 hours, I HAD MADE .40 in BTC!!!!! I JUST EARNED OVER 4000% MORE THAN MY $280 MINING RIG EARNED ME!!!! I was blown away. Maybe this was a fluke? I did it again next day. Every 3 hours or so I would push the button again but thats all. Sure enough, .35 that day. Also, it realy BTC. I requested a payout and although it took like 12 hours for them to send me an email stating they had just sent it, I actually did recieve the state amount of BTC within 24 hours in my personal wallet. The fees to send are SUPER LOW!. Like .01 Below I will list the steps I took, along with an explanation of thier "Mining" process on Androids. Reminder, this ONLY WORKS ON ANDROIDS. Also DO NOT use cryptobrowser on a physcal laptop or desktop. I ran it on an old laptop for three days last year and it fried it. It does actually use your hardware on those platforms to mine and it is not efficnet at all as I suspect they prob steal over half of your power for themselves using the REAL RandomX protocol via browser mining which is EXTREMELY INEFFICIENT DONT TRY IT!! -----How To Do This Yourself: Cryptotab Browser states the program works on Android devices by estimating what it thinks the hashrate would be for your device specs and siimulates what you would mine in a remote server however you still earn that estimated coin amount. It is not a SHA-256 process or coin that they say is mining, rather it is XMR and they swap that and pay it out to you in BTC Bitcoin. However I know damn well my Tab S6 doesnt hash 80-105 h/s on RandomX because I have done it with a moodified XMRig module i ported to Android. I got 5 h/s a sec if I was getting any hashes at all. But thats besides the point as I still was making money. Now, when you press that cloud boost button it immediately boosts that hash rate it estimates by the number on the cloud boost. As stated above, you can purchase more boosts and gift them or use them on extra android devices that you may have. Again, they are pricey so I'm not doing that plus it would just mean that I have another device that I have to leave on and open. The boosts come in x2, x4, x6, x8 and x10 variants. Again, they have unlimited uses. Here is the link to grab yourself CryptoBrowser Pro from CryptoTab. This IS A REFERRAL LINK! This is where I benefit from doing tis tutorial. Like i said, I want to be transparent as this is not a scam but I'm also not doing this out of the love of my heart. Their referral system works in that people that use the donwload the app using your link are your stage 1 referrals. Anytime they are mining, you earn a 15% bonus. So say they mine $.30 one day. You would get paid out an additional $.045 in your own balance (it does not come out of the referred user balance fyi so no worries). Then lets say that referred miner also gets their own referrals. I would get a 10% bonus on whatever THOSE people mine. This goes on and on for like 8 tiers. Each tier the bonus percntage essential halves. So again, I stand to benefit from this but it also is stupid to not make this visible as its WAY CHEAPER, EASIER AND MORE PROFITABLE TO GET BTC USING THIS METHOD THAN IT IS USING ASICS!! THIS EARNS ALMOST AS MUCH BTC AS AN ANTMINER S7 DOES RUNNING 24/7 ONLY WITHOUT THE HUGE ELLECTRICTY BILL AND COSTS!!!!) Thats it. Again, if you have concerns, let me know or if you have suggestions, other tips, etc... mention those as well!!! https://cryptotabbrowser.com/8557319 Links to Picture Proof http://imgur.com/gallery/P13bEsB
Today, in about 30 minutes or less from now, RandomX will be activated on Monero as part of its network protocol upgrade, so this seems like a good moment to share this timeline. It’s like the raw material for writing the history of ASIC resistant proof-of-work algorithms. If you think it’s incomplete, let me know what you’d like to add. I didn’t include Monero ASICs or FPGAs that weren’t publicly released, since it would be difficult to pin down a date. Original version written in Dutch for Monero Meetup Utrecht #2 on March 14, 2019 (next meetup is on Tuesday, December 3). 2010-10: Start of Bitcoin mining on GPUs 2011-06: First Bitcoin FPGAs (field-programmable gate arrays) 2011-09-26: Launch of Tenebrix (with a premine) using Scrypt algo to avoid GPUs 2011-10-13: Fair launch of Litecoin, also using Scrypt 2013-01-19: Avalon releases the first Bitcoin ASIC (application-specific integrated circuit) 2014-03: Secretly premined launch of Bytecoin, using CryptoNight version 0 2014-04: First Litecoin ASICs 2014-12-13: Vertcoin switches from Scrypt-N to Lyra2RE (multi-algo, currently 5) 2014-01: X11, a chain of 11 algos, for Xcoin => Darkcoin => Dash 2014-09: Digibyte switches to Myriadcoin's multi-algo with separate difficulty adjustment 2015-07-30: Ethash for Ethereum (memory-hard, i.e. using lots of RAM) 2018-04-06: CryptoNight version 2 by Monero (flipped a bit) 2018-05: Bitmain releases the Antminer X3 for CryptoNight, which doesn’t mine Monero 2018-07: Bitmain releases Antminer E3, the first Ethash ASIC 2018-10-01: Siacoin developers use a protocol change to disable ASICs other than their own Obelisk SC1 miner 2018-10-18: CryptoNight version 3 by Monero (changed a bit more than one bit) 2018-10/12: Successful 51% attack on Vertcoin (double spends by ASIC miners) 2019-01-15: Launch of Grin using two algorithms, one ASIC friendly and one ASIC resistant 2019-03-09: Monero’s CryptoNight version 4 or CryptoNightR, a self-programming algorithm, generating hashing instructions pseudo-randomly 2019-11-30: RandomX, a randomized and memory-hard algorithm, designed from scratch to use all elements of a general-purpose CPU 2020-??: Ethereum will probably switch to ProgPOW (programmatic proof of work) before switching to proof of stake
There are various ways of gaining cryptocurrencies and one major way is through cryptocurrency mining. So, Cryptofactsbc will help you understand what is cryptocurrency Mining and how to mine these cryptos. There is nothing to worry about because we will give you everything you need to know about cryptocurrency mining and suggest some steps to follow if you want to mine cryptocurrencies. Let us dig into our topic for the day, What is cryptocurrency Mining?
When we take Gold Mining for example miners go into pits to dig for Gold, others use machines one the surface on the lands to detect possible places where Gold will be located.. They find and wash the gold and refine it and get it ready to be sold. That is how Gold mining is done in the real world but when we come to the crypto world it is slightly different. For our fiat currency, the government decides the quantity to be printed and when to print and circulate them because it is centralised.
Cryptocurrency Mining is the process where by verified transactions are added to a ledger which is known as Blockchain. Crypto coins are decentralized therefore no authority or government persons can order for the circulation of cryptos. Mining Cryptocoins is an arms race that rewards early adopters. Anyone can participate in mining provided they have the necessary materials to start. I am pretty sure you have heard pf Bitcoins, the first decentralised cryptocurrency that was released in early 2009. Similar digital currencies have crept into the world-wide market since then, including a spin-off from Bitcoin called Bitcoin Cash. You can get in on the cryptocurrency rush if you take the time to learn the basics properly.
Methods of Cryptocurrency Mining
There are various ways of mining and we will look a few methods; Cloud Mining Basically these are some of the cryptocurrencies that can be mined, Bitcoin, Ethereum, Ripple, Thether, Bitcoin Cash and others. The main cryptocurrency we will talk about it’s mining is Bitcoin. Cloud Mining is process whereby miners pay money to rent some hardware from a host company. A company owns bitcoin hardware and then gives them out on rent so miners in-turn rent part of these bitcoin hardware and utilize them remotely.
The use of Central Processing Unit of your computer, which is the brain of your computer was the very first method people adopted for mining bitcoins when bitcoins were first launched in the year 2009. Back then the mining difficulty was very low so just your CPU could help your gain some huge fractions of Bitcoins. But as stuff were advancing the mining difficulty increase and became higher so people started to look for something better and higher than a normal CPU.
When technology was advancing, Graphics Processing Units were created. They are programmable electronic chip or circuit that helps the computer to solve complex problems. Most Especially for gamer to be to install games with high graphics requirements on the computer. GPU become very popular therefore people began to use them to mine for bitcoins and amazingly the mining power of 1 GPU equals about 30 CPUs. So, in order for you to gain higher fractions of bitcoins as mine you need to upgrade whiles the system also advances.
Another invention came into the system to out smart the GPU mining which was the FPGA. It is an integrated circuit that also helps the computer to carry out a set of calculations. It is almost 10- 100 times better and faster than GPU mining.
The full meaning of ASIC is Application Specific Integrated Circuit and it was a breed of miner that was introduced in the year 2019. The sole purpose of this ASIC was to mine bitcoins so you can imagine how fast it would be.
Transcript of discussion between an ASIC designer and several proof-of-work designers from #monero-pow channel on Freenode this morning
[08:07:01] lukminer contains precompiled cn/r math sequences for some blocks: https://lukminer.org/2019/03/09/oh-kay-v4r-here-we-come/ [08:07:11] try that with RandomX :P [08:09:00] tevador: are you ready for some RandomX feedback? it looks like the CNv4 is slowly stabilizing, hashrate comes down... [08:09:07] how does it even make sense to precompile it? [08:09:14] mine 1% faster for 2 minutes? [08:09:35] naturally we think the entire asic-resistance strategy is doomed to fail :) but that's a high-level thing, who knows. people may think it's great. [08:09:49] about RandomX: looks like the cache size was chosen to make it GPU-hard [08:09:56] looking forward to more docs [08:11:38] after initial skimming, I would think it's possible to make a 10x asic for RandomX. But at least for us, we will only make an ASIC if there is not a total ASIC hostility there in the first place. That's better for the secret miners then. [08:13:12] What I propose is this: we are working on an Ethash ASIC right now, and once we have that working, we would invite tevador or whoever wants to come to HK/Shenzhen and we walk you guys through how we would make a RandomX ASIC. You can then process this input in any way you like. Something like that. [08:13:49] unless asics (or other accelerators) re-emerge on XMR faster than expected, it looks like there is a little bit of time before RandomX rollout [08:14:22] 10x in what measure? $/hash or watt/hash? [08:14:46] watt/hash [08:15:19] so you can make 10 times more efficient double precisio FPU? [08:16:02] like I said let's try to be productive. You are having me here, let's work together! [08:16:15] continue with RandomX, publish more docs. that's always helpful. [08:16:37] I'm trying to understand how it's possible at all. Why AMD/Intel are so inefficient at running FP calculations? [08:18:05] midipoet ([email protected]/web/irccloud.com/x-vszshqqxwybvtsjm) has joined #monero-pow [08:18:17] hardware development works the other way round. We start with 1) math then 2) optimization priority 3) hw/sw boundary 4) IP selection 5) physical implementation [08:22:32] This still doesn't explain at which point you get 10x [08:23:07] Weren't you the ones claiming "We can accelerate ProgPoW by a factor of 3x to 8x." ? I find it hard to believe too. [08:30:20] sure [08:30:26] so my idea: first we finish our current chip [08:30:35] from simulation to silicon :) [08:30:40] we love this stuff... we do it anyway [08:30:59] now we have a communication channel, and we don't call each other names immediately anymore: big progress! [08:31:06] you know, we russians have a saying "it was smooth on paper, but they forgot about ravines" [08:31:12] So I need a bit more details [08:31:16] ha ha. good! [08:31:31] that's why I want to avoid to just make claims [08:31:34] let's work [08:31:40] RandomX comes in Sep/Oct, right? [08:31:45] Maybe [08:32:20] We need to audit it first [08:32:31] ok [08:32:59] we don't make chips to prove sw devs that their assumptions about hardware are wrong. especially not if these guys then promptly hardfork and move to the next wrong assumption :) [08:33:10] from the outside, this only means that hw & sw are devaluing each other [08:33:24] neither of us should do this [08:33:47] we are making chips that can hopefully accelerate more crypto ops in the future [08:33:52] signing, verifying, proving, etc. [08:34:02] PoW is just a feature like others [08:34:18] sech1: is it easy for you to come to Hong Kong? (visa-wise) [08:34:20] or difficult? [08:34:33] or are you there sometimes? [08:34:41] It's kind of far away [08:35:13] we are looking forward to more RandomX docs. that's the first step. [08:35:31] I want to avoid that we have some meme "Linzhi says they can accelerate XYZ by factor x" .... "ha ha ha" [08:35:37] right? we don't want that :) [08:35:39] doc is almost finished [08:35:40] What docs do you need? It's described pretty good [08:35:41] so I better say nothing now [08:35:50] we focus on our Ethash chip [08:36:05] then based on that, we are happy to walk interested people through the design and what else it can do [08:36:22] that's a better approach from my view than making claims that are laughed away (rightfully so, because no silicon...) [08:36:37] ethash ASIC is basically a glorified memory controller [08:36:39] sech1: tevador said something more is coming (he just did it again) [08:37:03] yes, some parts of RandomX are not described well [08:37:10] like dataset access logic [08:37:37] RandomX looks like progpow for CPU [08:37:54] yes [08:38:03] it is designed to reflect CPU [08:38:34] so any ASIC for it = CPU in essence [08:39:04] of course there are still some things in regular CPU that can be thrown away for RandomX [08:40:20] uncore parts are not used, but those will use very little power [08:40:37] except for memory controller [08:41:09] I'm just surprised sometimes, ok? let me ask: have you designed or taped out an asic before? isn't it risky to make assumptions about things that are largely unknown? [08:41:23] I would worry [08:41:31] that I get something wrong... [08:41:44] but I also worry like crazy that CNv4 will blow up, where you guys seem to be relaxed [08:42:06] I didn't want to bring up anything RandomX because CNv4 is such a nailbiter... :) [08:42:15] how do you guys know you don't have asics in a week or two? [08:42:38] we don't have experience with ASIC design, but RandomX is simply designed to exactly fit CPU capabilities, which is the best you can do anyways [08:43:09] similar as ProgPoW did with GPUs [08:43:14] some people say they want to do asic-resistance only until the vast majority of coins has been issued [08:43:21] that's at least reasonable [08:43:43] yeah but progpow totally will not work as advertised :) [08:44:08] yeah, I've seen that comment about progpow a few times already [08:44:11] which is no surprise if you know it's just a random sales story to sell a few more GPUs [08:44:13] RandomX is not permanent, we are expecting to switch to ASIC friendly in a few years if possible [08:44:18] yes [08:44:21] that makes sense [08:44:40] linzhi-sonia: how so? will it break or will it be asic-able with decent performance gains? [08:44:41] are you happy with CNv4 so far? [08:45:10] ah, long story. progpow is a masterpiece of deception, let's not get into it here. [08:45:21] if you know chip marketing it makes more sense [08:45:24] linzhi-sonia: So far? lol! a bit early to tell, don't you think? [08:45:35] the diff is coming down [08:45:41] first few hours looked scary [08:45:43] I remain skeptical: I only see ASICs being reasonable if they are already as ubiquitous as smartphones [08:45:46] yes, so far so good [08:46:01] we kbew the diff would not come down ubtil affter block 75 [08:46:10] yes [08:46:22] but first few hours it looks like only 5% hashrate left [08:46:27] looked [08:46:29] now it's better [08:46:51] the next worry is: when will "unexplainable" hashrate come back? [08:47:00] you hope 2-3 months? more? [08:47:05] so give it another couple of days. will probably overshoot to the downside, and then rise a bit as miners get updated and return [08:47:22] 3 months minimum turnaround, yes [08:47:28] nah [08:47:36] don't underestimate asicmakers :) [08:47:54] you guys don't get #1 priority on chip fabs [08:47:56] 3 months = 90 days. do you know what is happening in those 90 days exactly? I'm pretty sure you don't. same thing as before. [08:48:13] we don't do any secret chips btw [08:48:21] 3 months assumes they had a complete design ready to go, and added the last minute change in 1 day [08:48:24] do you know who is behind the hashrate that is now bricked? [08:48:27] innosilicon? [08:48:34] hyc: no no, and no. :) [08:48:44] hyc: have you designed or taped out a chip before? [08:48:51] yes, many years ago [08:49:10] then you should know that 90 days is not a fixed number [08:49:35] sure, but like I said, other makers have greater demand [08:49:35] especially not if you can prepare, if you just have to modify something, or you have more programmability in the chip than some people assume [08:50:07] we are chipmakers, we would never dare to do what you guys are doing with CNv4 :) but maybe that just means you are cooler! [08:50:07] and yes, programmability makes some aspect of turnaround easier [08:50:10] all fine [08:50:10] I hope it works! [08:50:28] do you know who is behind the hashrate that is now bricked? [08:50:29] inno? [08:50:41] we suspect so, but have no evidence [08:50:44] maybe we can try to find them, but we cannot spend too much time on this [08:50:53] it's probably not so much of a secret [08:51:01] why should it be, right? [08:51:10] devs want this cat-and-mouse game? devs get it... [08:51:35] there was one leak saying it's innosilicon [08:51:36] so you think 3 months, ok [08:51:43] inno is cool [08:51:46] good team [08:51:49] IP design house [08:51:54] in Wuhan [08:52:06] they send their people to conferences with fake biz cards :) [08:52:19] pretending to be other companies? [08:52:26] sure [08:52:28] ha ha [08:52:39] so when we see them, we look at whatever card they carry and laugh :) [08:52:52] they are perfectly suited for secret mining games [08:52:59] they made at most $6 million in 2 months of mining, so I wonder if it was worth it [08:53:10] yeah. no way to know [08:53:15] but it's good that you calculate! [08:53:24] this is all about cost/benefit [08:53:25] then you also understand - imagine the value of XMR goes up 5x, 10x [08:53:34] that whole "asic resistance" thing will come down like a house of cards [08:53:41] I would imagine they sell immediately [08:53:53] the investor may fully understand the risk [08:53:57] the buyer [08:54:13] it's not healthy, but that's another discussion [08:54:23] so mid-June [08:54:27] let's see [08:54:49] I would be susprised if CNv4 ASICs show up at all [08:54:56] surprised* [08:54:56] why? [08:55:05] is only an economic question [08:55:12] yeah should be interesting. FPGAs will be near their limits as well [08:55:16] unless XMR goes up a lot [08:55:19] no, not *only*. it's also a technology question [08:55:44] you believe CNv4 is "asic resistant"? which feature? [08:55:53] it's not [08:55:59] cnv4 = Rabdomx ? [08:56:03] no [08:56:07] cnv4=cryptinight/r [08:56:11] ah [08:56:18] CNv4 is the one we have now, I think [08:56:21] since yesterday [08:56:30] it's plenty enough resistant for current XMR price [08:56:45] that may be, yes! [08:56:55] I look at daily payouts. XMR = ca. 100k USD / day [08:57:03] it can hold until October, but it's not asic resistant [08:57:23] well, last 24h only 22,442 USD :) [08:57:32] I think 80 h/s per watt ASICs are possible for CNv4 [08:57:38] linzhi-sonia where do you produce your chips? TSMC? [08:57:44] I'm cruious how you would expect to build a randomX ASIC that outperforms ARM cores for efficiency, or Intel cores for raw speed [08:57:48] curious [08:58:01] yes, tsmc [08:58:21] Our team did the world's first bitcoin asic, Avalon [08:58:25] and upcoming 2nd gen Ryzens (64-core EPYC) will be a blast at RandomX [08:58:28] designed and manufactured [08:58:53] still being marketed? [08:59:03] linzhi-sonia: do you understand what xmr wants to achieve, community-wise? [08:59:14] Avalon? as part of Canaan Creative, yes I think so. [08:59:25] there's not much interesting oing on in SHA256 [08:59:29] Inge-: I would think so, but please speak [08:59:32] hyc: yes [09:00:28] linzhi-sonia: i am curious to hear your thoughts. I am fairly new to this space myself... [09:00:51] oh [09:00:56] we are grandpas, and grandmas [09:01:36] yet I have no problem understanding why ASICS are currently reviled. [09:01:48] xmr's main differentiators to, let's say btc, are anonymity and fungibility [09:01:58] I find the client terribly slow btw [09:02:21] and I think the asic-forking since last may is wrong, doesn't create value and doesn't help with the project objectives [09:02:25] which "the client" ? [09:02:52] Monero GUI client maybe [09:03:12] MacOS, yes [09:03:28] What exactly is slow? [09:03:30] linzhi-sonia: I run my own node, and use the CLI and Monerujo. Have not had issues. [09:03:49] staying in sync [09:03:49] linzhi-sonia: decentralization is also a key principle [09:03:56] one that Bitcoin has failed to maintain [09:04:39] hmm [09:05:00] looks fairly decentralized to me. decentralization is the result of 3 goals imo: resilient, trustless, permissionless [09:05:28] don't ask a hardware maker about physical decentralization. that's too ideological. we focus on logical decentralization. [09:06:11] physical decentralization is important. with bulk of bitnoin mining centered on Chinese hydroelectric dams [09:06:19] have you thought about including block data in the PoW? [09:06:41] yes, of course. [09:07:39] is that already in an algo? [09:08:10] hyc: about "centered on chinese hydro" - what is your source? the best paper I know is this: https://coinshares.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/Mining-Whitepaper-Final.pdf [09:09:01] linzhi-sonia: do you mine on your ASICs before you sell them? [09:09:13] besides testing of course [09:09:45] that paper puts Chinese btc miners at 60% max [09:10:05] tevador: I think everybody learned that that is not healthy long-term! [09:10:16] because it gives the chipmaker a cost advantage over its own customers [09:10:33] and cost advantage leads to centralization (physical and logical) [09:10:51] you guys should know who finances progpow and why :) [09:11:05] but let's not get into this, ha ha. want to keep the channel civilized. right OhGodAGirl ? :) [09:11:34] tevador: so the answer is no! 100% and definitely no [09:11:54] that "self-mining" disease was one of the problems we have now with asics, and their bad reputation (rightfully so) [09:13:08] I plan to write a nice short 2-page paper or so on our chip design process. maybe it's interesting to some people here. [09:13:15] basically the 5 steps I mentioned before, from math to physical [09:13:32] linzhi-sonia: the paper you linked puts 48% of bitcoin mining in Sichuan. the total in China is much more than 60% [09:13:38] need to run it by a few people to fix bugs, will post it here when published [09:14:06] hyc: ok! I am just sharing the "best" document I know today. it definitely may be wrong and there may be a better one now. [09:14:18] hyc: if you see some reports, please share [09:14:51] hey I am really curious about this: where is a PoW algo that puts block data into the PoW? [09:15:02] the previous paper I read is from here http://hackingdistributed.com/2018/01/15/decentralization-bitcoin-ethereum/ [09:15:38] hyc: you said that already exists? (block data in PoW) [09:15:45] it would make verification harder [09:15:49] linzhi-sonia: https://the-eye.eu/public/Books/campdivision.com/PDF/Computers%20General/Privacy/bitcoin/meh/hashimoto.pdf [09:15:51] but for chips it would be interesting [09:15:52] we discussed the possibility about a year ago https://www.reddit.com/Monero/comments/8bshrx/what_we_need_to_know_about_proof_of_work_pow/ [09:16:05] oh good links! thanks! need to read... [09:16:06] I think that paper by dryja was original [09:17:53] since we have a nice flow - second question I'm very curious about: has anyone thought about in-protocol rewards for other functions? [09:18:55] we've discussed micropayments for wallets to use remote nodes [09:18:55] you know there is a lot of work in other coins about STARK provers, zero-knowledge, etc. many of those things very compute intense, or need to be outsourced to a service (zether). For chipmakers, in-protocol rewards create an economic incentive to accelerate those things. [09:19:50] whenever there is an in-protocol reward, you may get the power of ASICs doing something you actually want to happen [09:19:52] it would be nice if there was some economic reward for running a fullnode, but no one has come up with much more than that afaik [09:19:54] instead of fighting them off [09:20:29] you need to use asics, not fight them. that's an obvious thing to say for an asicmaker... [09:20:41] in-protocol rewards can be very powerful [09:20:50] like I said before - unless the ASICs are so useful they're embedded in every smartphone, I dont see them being a positive for decentralization [09:21:17] if they're a separate product, the average consumer is not going to buy them [09:21:20] now I was talking about speedup of verifying, signing, proving, etc. [09:21:23] they won't even know what they are [09:22:07] if anybody wants to talk about or design in-protocol rewards, please come talk to us [09:22:08] the average consumer also doesn't use general purpose hardware to secure blockchains either [09:22:14] not just for PoW, in fact *NOT* for PoW [09:22:32] it requires sw/hw co-design [09:23:10] we are in long-term discussions/collaboration over this with Ethereum, Bitcoin Cash. just talk right now. [09:23:16] this was recently published though suggesting more uptake though I guess https://btcmanager.com/college-students-are-the-second-biggest-miners-of-cryptocurrency/ [09:23:29] I find it pretty hard to believe their numbers [09:24:03] well [09:24:09] sorry, original article: https://www.pcmag.com/news/366952/college-kids-are-using-campus-electricity-to-mine-crypto [09:24:11] just talk, no? rumors [09:24:18] college students are already more educated than the average consumer [09:24:29] we are not seeing many such customers anymore [09:24:30] it's data from cisco monitoring network traffic